My guest today is Dr. Jonathan Metzl. Jonathan is a psychiatrist and author and a professor of sociology at Vanderbilt University. He's written several books including "The Protest Psychosis", "Prozac on the Couch", "Against Health" and the topic of today's conversation, "Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland", which received the Robert F. Kennedy award for nonfiction.

In "Dying of Whiteness", Jonathan argues that GOP policies like cutting education funds, cutting taxes, opposing Obamacare, and opposing gun control are hurting the life expectancy of America's white population. In other words, hurting the very people who support these policies most. He also argues that support for these policies stems from racial resentment, a feeling of resentment towards minorities among white people. As you'll hear in the discussion, I don't agree that whiteness and racial resentment are the best explanations for why the median Republican supports these policies. I also think that concepts like "whiteness", and "blackness" are toxic. I think people understandably hear these words as attacks on their racial identities, which they can't control. And so I think we should just rid the discourse of these words. Jonathan obviously disagrees and we talk about that in the episode.

That said, there are some smaller claims I agreed with Jonathan like the fact that the easy availability of guns in this country has made suicide easier for people, especially for the very population that opposes gun control laws. Some of his other claims about the effect of cutting school budgets on life expectancy, I found to be poorly supported. And you'll hear me press him on that towards the middle of the episode. In general, I found that there was some distance between the tone of his book and the positions he was willing to defend in the room. I don't know exactly how to handle situations like that, as an interviewer. Do I just talk to the person I'm meeting in the room? Or do I hold people accountable to the precise claims that they made in the book? I don't really know. Anyway, I'm grateful to Jonathan for coming on the podcast and I hope you all enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

CHECK OUT JONATHAN'S BOOKS:
Dying of Whiteness https://bit.ly/3BG5IPR
The Protest Psychosis https://bit.ly/3OxZRUe
Other Books https://bit.ly/438EvB2

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Chapters:
00:00:00 Debate Over GOP Policies And Their Impact On White Life Expectancy
00:04:05 Discussing Career Of Building Institutional Spaces To Study Medicine And Culture, And Introducing Book On Dying Of White
00:05:24 GOP Policies And Their Impact On Life Expectancy And Suicide Rates
00:18:26 Conservative Politics Affecting Healthcare Access For Black And Latino Citizens
00:21:42 Racial Resentment And Fear Of Resource Competition
00:25:27 The Importance Of Common Infrastructure For Cooperation And Collaboration.
00:30:06 Gallup Poll Shows Deteriorating Race Relations In The Us Since 2013
00:32:34 Monetization Of Conflict On Social Media
00:35:27 Tribalism And Lack Of Compromise In Today's Political System
00:38:38 Discussion On The Negative Effects Of High School Dropout On Life Expectancy.
00:42:37 Effects Of School Closures On Learning Loss During The Pandemic
00:45:05 Different Regional Experiences Of The Pandemic In The Us
00:49:59 Personal Background On Guns And Gun Control
00:52:07 The Effect Of Gun Sales In Missouri And The Second Amendment
00:54:13 The Evolution Of The Second Amendment And Its Relation To The Federal Government
00:56:18 Racism Embedded In Policies
01:00:14 Controversial NRA Marketing Campaigns Targeting Black Americans With George Floyd Imagery To Promote Gun Ownership
01:02:26 Guns And Crisis: The Dangerous Combination
01:05:26 Alarming Increase In Gun Deaths And Suicides In The Us
01:10:53 Deaths Of Despair In Communities Affected By Economic Decline And Policy Threats To White Population Health
01:13:28 Gun Suicides Contributing To Sense Of Hopelessness In The Middle Of The Us

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