Donald Trump can seem like a political anomaly. You sometimes hear people describe his connection with his base in quasimystical terms. But really, Trump is an example of an archetype — the rightwing populist showman — that recurs across time and place. There’s Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Boris Johnson in Britain, Javier Milei in Argentina. And there’s a long lineage of this type in the United States too.


So why is there this consistent demand for this kind of political figure? And why does this set of qualities — ethnonationalist politics and an entertaining style — repeatedly appear at all?


John Ganz is the writer of the newsletter Unpopular Front (https://www.unpopularfront.news/) and the author of the forthcoming book “When the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s (https://us.macmillan.com/books/978037...) .” In this conversation, we discuss how figures like David Duke and Pat Buchanan were able to galvanize the fringes of the Republican Party; Trump’s specific brand of TVready charisma; and what liberals tend to overlook about the appeal of this populist political aesthetic.


This episode contains strong language.


Mentioned:


“RightWing Populism (https://www.rothbard.it/articles/righ...) ” by Murray N. Rothbard


“The ‘wave’ of rightwing populist sentiment is a myth (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...) ” by Larry Bartels


“How we got here (https://www.slowboring.com/p/howweg...) ” by Matthew Yglesias


Book Recommendations:


What Hath God Wrought? (https://global.oup.com/academic/produ...) by Daniel Walker Howe


After Nationalism (https://www.pennpress.org/97808122516...) by Samuel Goldman


The Politics of Cultural Despair (https://www.ucpress.edu/book/97805200...) by Fritz R. Stern


Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].


You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezrakleinpodcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra....


This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Factchecking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is AnnieRose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.






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